Joel Rosenberg comment-66381 2012-04-12T23:52:02Z 2012-04-12T23:52:02Z Loving the pics Joel Rosenberg 2012-04-12T23:52:02Z Thomas Wendel comment-48265 2011-03-29T18:50:20Z 2011-03-29T18:50:20Z In a descriptive analysis, it's incorrect to conclude that "this isn't a big enough difference". A difference of 2.56 versus 3.83 incidents is a 50% increase in reported events and might be quite significant. If you really want to know if there are more tags, you'd have to develop a reliable measurement and apply it consistently across random Saturdays in random locations within the area of interest using unbiased (preferably blinded) observers. Still, my hat's off to Joel for attempting to use existing data try to address the question, for clearly explaining his methods, and for acknowledging the limitations of his analysis. Thomas Wendel 2011-03-29T18:50:20Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48260 2011-03-29T18:09:25Z 2011-03-29T18:09:25Z Like I said in the article, "I don't assume it's exhaustive for all vandalism occuring in the grid." As long as you report graffiti to the MBA regardless of what kind of Saturday it is, the numbers should be consistently off. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-29T18:09:25Z pdperry comment-48234 2011-03-29T16:54:01Z 2011-03-29T16:54:01Z Since we are a member of the Midtown Business Assn, we report graffiti to the MBA for them to clean-up. But does the MBA then report it to the police for inclusion into the database? If not, then the analysis is prolly lacking a lot of data... pdperry 2011-03-29T16:54:01Z Ben Ilfeld comment-48081 2011-03-27T15:58:05Z 2011-03-27T15:58:05Z True, but as a matter of public policy stats do matter. I live in Midtown - have for years. I own a building that has been tagged repeatedly. Still, it matters to me as a citizen to weigh the costs and benefits of more people in the area for events. Ben Ilfeld 2011-03-27T15:58:05Z William Burg comment-48093 2011-03-27T05:44:15Z 2011-03-27T05:44:15Z Vandalism isn't the only reason for increased police presence on Second Saturday. I'd agree that more vigilance and prompt reporting of crimes is important--but at some point I think people get frustrated after losing count of the number of times a wall gets tagged, or another altercation happens on one's porch. If a resident keeps calling the police but nothing changes, is keeping accurate statistics enough reason to keep someone calling? William Burg 2011-03-27T05:44:15Z William Burg comment-48092 2011-03-27T05:41:05Z 2011-03-27T05:41:05Z I suppose confirmation bias may have something to do with it--if we're out on Second Saturday and notice fresh tags because more people are out walking around, an association can be made, although I'd also agree that tagging and vandalism is a constant problem throughout the month. William Burg 2011-03-27T05:41:05Z Ben Ilfeld comment-48083 2011-03-27T01:57:02Z 2011-03-27T01:57:02Z I think he was trying to limit the question so he could get an answer. All the of the above issues present different questions that can be analyzed separately and then costs can be combined. Something like DUI's for example would be really hard to compare since the level of enforcement varies. Ben Ilfeld 2011-03-27T01:57:02Z Ben Ilfeld comment-48082 2011-03-27T01:54:43Z 2011-03-27T01:54:43Z Right on the money. There are also other biases at work. I attended a NAG meeting a decade ago when the police described how taggers dress and I noticed that I was wearing the exact outfit! More people that dress a certain way or are a certain age or even have the wrong skin tone can influence how we see Second Saturdays. Ben Ilfeld 2011-03-27T01:54:43Z Ahsan Awan comment-48075 2011-03-27T00:13:35Z 2011-03-27T00:13:35Z Seems to me that the statistics paint a picture where a justification for increased police presence simply doesn't exist. That's not to say that there isn't more crime, or that there isn't justification for increased presence. What Midtown residents may need to explore is whether they need to agree as a community to report all crimes in order to provide law enforcement with a body of statistical evidence that can justify increased presence and patrols, or that can justify further regulation of events such as the Second Saturday Art Walk. Ahsan Awan 2011-03-27T00:13:35Z LisaB23 comment-48071 2011-03-26T18:48:15Z 2011-03-26T18:48:15Z PD still has some data analysts who can probably provide excellent info. In speaking with PD last year after the September Second Saturday homicide they noted an increase in property crimes on Second Saturday. They characterized it as an elevation but not a spike and noted the warmer months see an elevation in all crimes including violent and property crime so the Second Saturdays in the warm months are higher than non-Second Saturdays although again not exponentially so. The data for all weekends show that this is a chronic problem (it's all the time) and when it's your home or business that has been damaged to stats don't matter - this is very personal and many of us have had to repeately repair damage and are really tired of it. That's all we're saying. LisaB23 2011-03-26T18:48:15Z LisaB23 comment-48069 2011-03-26T18:31:38Z 2011-03-26T18:31:38Z asking for a full picture and complete analysis is not whiney - data analysis are often more complex than meets the eye as demonstrated by the comments and questions and why we actually have entire cirricula in our universities devoted to data analysis and statistics and why crime statisticians require several years of statistics coursework. And If you got your home or business tagged relentlessly and spent counltess hours cleaning up after other peoples destructive behavior aimed at your home or business you might be a little 'whiney' too. LisaB23 2011-03-26T18:31:38Z Dale Kooyman comment-48058 2011-03-26T16:06:36Z 2011-03-26T16:06:36Z Did the crime data include PD DUI arrests? Also does it include the crime reports by Highway Patrol, including their DUI's? Its patrols are a significant force in Midtown to assist PD. Obtaining its information is more complicated and the last time I tried, there was a charge for furnishing results. To answer your question above, yes, that assumption can be made. I feel the value of your analysis is crime in total on any weekend. While it is interesting to show a contrast or lack of contrast on SS and other weekends, your analysis is also very significant because it shows the data for all weekends at least for the fall/winter seasons. Dale Kooyman 2011-03-26T16:06:36Z Dale Kooyman comment-48057 2011-03-26T15:48:10Z 2011-03-26T15:48:10Z You sound as if you object to people asking intelligent questions, so resort to typical name calling. What are you afraid of? The answers may not support your perceptions? Joel has done a good job but in all analyses readers have legitimate questions. Dale Kooyman 2011-03-26T15:48:10Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48053 2011-03-26T08:48:22Z 2011-03-26T08:48:22Z Well, I don't think I have enough data to say there is no difference in crime, just that there's no evidence in the public reports I was looking at to show an uptick. But if it's true, it could be due to a lot of factors. I've been reading about "Confirmation Bias" in how it relates to one's perception of a Sports game. One player that you already dislike makes 2 bad plays that were memorable, and you'll leave the arena thinking he laid a stinker, even if he had 40 other great moves and stood out on the scoresheet. I bet when I see more people than usual and hear more voices than usual during an event that I'm already nervous about, if I see a tag or litter the next morning, I'll say "See! Those second Saturday kids are at it again!" even if my planter was broken two Fridays ago and my flowers will be pulled next Saturday. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T08:48:22Z William Burg comment-48052 2011-03-26T08:27:40Z 2011-03-26T08:27:40Z On the flip side, you're assuming a relatively constant rate at which vandalism is reported. Assuming for a moment that the rate of vandalism stays pretty static--what else could explain these complaints about an uptick in vandalism on Second Saturday weekends? Is it a problem of perception? William Burg 2011-03-26T08:27:40Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48049 2011-03-26T07:20:48Z 2011-03-26T07:20:48Z I couldn't get that site to work, but after reading your comment I attempted in a different browser. Looks like it was trying to open a popup that I was rejecting. Strange they would launch the data in a new window. In any case, this data certainly is better. It may be a little harder to parse, but I'll take a look at it. Thanks! Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T07:20:48Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48047 2011-03-26T07:14:22Z 2011-03-26T07:14:22Z The only assumption would be that the percentage of reported vandalism wouldn't change weekend to weekend. If, say, 80% of vandalism goes unreported, I wouldn't expect that to rise to 98% on just one weekend a month. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T07:14:22Z William Burg comment-48046 2011-03-26T07:03:49Z 2011-03-26T07:03:49Z This also assumes that reported incidents of vandalism encompasses all events of vandalism, vs. those that are reported. Even grumpy sticks in the mud like me don't call in every tag we see. William Burg 2011-03-26T07:03:49Z Falina comment-48043 2011-03-26T06:59:10Z 2011-03-26T06:59:10Z Agreed, Ben, but shinier, more-robust analyses usually only make rough data worse. Half the issue with vandalism is that people AREN'T around to catch it. Also, data here is better for your purposes, I think. (it includes times, and goes back to the summer months): http://maps.cityofsacramento.org/website/sacpd/ The one he recently posted is just prettier. Falina 2011-03-26T06:59:10Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48039 2011-03-26T06:45:44Z 2011-03-26T06:45:44Z I guess my scenario for the commenters would be this. Let's say that all 6 of these Second Saturdays each had an explanation for the unremarkable number of reported vandalism incidents. In one case it could be because it was 15° colder than every other Saturday over the last 6 months. In another case, perhaps the Saturday coincided with a major sports event that kept everyone off the streets, and so on. People on this site haven't been saying "You know, even though they've been looking like every other weekend recently, vandalism on Second Saturday has been deceivingly low because of a variety of fluke factors over the last six months, so we better get ready for hell once we regress back to the mean!" People have been complaining about the actual quantity of experienced vandalism. So if, from weekend to weekend, reported vandalism hasn't varied over the last 6 months for whatever the reason, how then do we explain the recent complaints? Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T06:45:44Z Ben Ilfeld comment-48032 2011-03-26T05:59:42Z 2011-03-26T05:59:42Z Better yet, these are all public records. It should be easy for anyone to create more robust analysis. Using regression models we should be able to count for any number of factors like weather or time of year. This is a worthwhile question because we can calculate the some of the additional public costs of events like this and weigh against the benefits. Ben Ilfeld 2011-03-26T05:59:42Z Savage comment-48028 2011-03-26T05:45:58Z 2011-03-26T05:45:58Z Nice work Joel. Don't jump through any more hoops for these whiney commenters. Tagging is not related to Second Saturday. Comb any midtown alley regularly and watch how fast the tags show up. Savage 2011-03-26T05:45:58Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48024 2011-03-26T05:43:01Z 2011-03-26T05:43:01Z How interesting. I like that the January weekend was the coldest in this list and had the fewest incidents of the 6 Second Saturday weekends captured. If we can just keep this town cold, our walls will be safe. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T05:43:01Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48021 2011-03-26T05:38:19Z 2011-03-26T05:38:19Z Well, couldn't you assume that the percentage of unreported crimes is the same on any given weekend? This isn't an attempt to say that there were only 5 incidents of vandalism on 12/5 and 12/6, but just to provide a relative comparison of police reported data from weekend to weekend. I spent some time on the CrimeReports website hoping for more context on the incidents they were listing, but didn't get any clarity on the nuances. I had originally gone to the official Sac PD crime mapping website, but I got the impression that it was under mothballs. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T05:38:19Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48023 2011-03-26T05:36:27Z 2011-03-26T05:36:27Z I agree, it can be taxing as a midtown resident. Just this past Saturday my downstairs neighbor had to shoo away some young drunk ladies who were urinating on our lawn. It was a much louder third Saturday than the prior Saturday in my neighborhood. But this is just my story, and I'm sure next month will be different for me. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T05:36:27Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48022 2011-03-26T05:30:28Z 2011-03-26T05:30:28Z Good point, but you can compare Second Saturdays in the winter to non-Second Saturdays in the winter. And check out the temperatures above for some more relevance. The weekend number I listed are for Saturdays and Sundays, but not Mondays. I'd love to get some earlier crime data, but that's all I could get my hands on in the public domain. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T05:30:28Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48020 2011-03-26T05:20:16Z 2011-03-26T05:20:16Z I took a look at http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSAC and captured all the weather data for these weekends with another program. Assuming only temperature and rainfall matter, here are temperatures and rainfall (in inches) for every Saturday in the last 6 months, at a point taken between 6 and 7 PM. Date Temperature Rainfall 10/02 80.1°F N/A 10/09 75.9°F N/A (Second Saturday) 10/16 66.9°F N/A 10/23 57.9°F 0.01 10/30 60.1°F N/A 11/06 60.8°F N/A 11/13 57.0°F N/A (Second Saturday) 11/20 48.2°F N/A 11/27 42.1°F N/A 12/04 53.1°F 0.01 12/11 53.6°F N/A (Second Saturday) 12/18 55.4°F 0.02 12/25 48.9°F 0.04 01/01 42.8°F 0.00 01/08 39.0°F N/A (Second Saturday) 01/15 50.0°F N/A 01/22 57.0°F N/A 01/29 48.9°F N/A 02/05 68.0°F N/A 02/12 52.0°F N/A (Second Saturday) 02/19 45.0°F N/A 02/26 44.1°F N/A 03/05 60.1°F 0.00 03/12 57.9°F N/A But it's important to note that I'm not attempting to provide a predictive model. There's so little data here that all I can say is that over the past 6 months, the amount of reported vandalism on Second Saturday weekends has not stood out from other weekends. I can't speak to how the weather may affect vandalism on future Second Saturdays. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T05:20:16Z LisaB23 comment-48014 2011-03-26T04:58:09Z 2011-03-26T04:58:09Z Please show us May to September of 2010 as well. Using the winter / colder months only does not tell the whole story. Also, the armed robbery spike in Midtown in Nov & December was after Midnight so due to how the data are reported, the violent crime stats will show this all happened on Sunday or Monday. LisaB23 2011-03-26T04:58:09Z LisaB23 comment-48012 2011-03-26T04:56:43Z 2011-03-26T04:56:43Z Also worth noting is the timing of police shifts and how the data are logged. Report times for a day go from about 4 pm to 3 am so depending on when the report came in it might be logged as late as Monday or Tuesday. Having spoken with PD about this several times, Second Sat is generally more active than other weekend nights especially in the warmer months which are not included here. Winter months are much slower and thankfully a brief reprieve. For an accurate and complete picture we need to also see May to September of 2010 when we saw crowds upwards of 20,000 descend on our neighborhoods. Also keep in mind many residents are so sick and tired of property damage most don't report any more so no data exists for the discouraged property owner. I just expect property damage on Second Sat so when it happens I repair it and move on - I know I should report it but I'm tired of trying. LisaB23 2011-03-26T04:56:43Z Dale Kooyman comment-48011 2011-03-26T04:50:44Z 2011-03-26T04:50:44Z Looks like this was a great analysis of reported crimes. PD in the past estimated reported crimes to be about 40% of the total since so many people say that they do not call the non-emergency number to report crimes because they know they will have a long wait time on weekends. Or people call and then get impatient waiting, so hang up. I think PD can capture the hangups but have no idea as the reason for those calls. Then there is apparently a significant number of individuals who do not follow through with completing the written report form. So do you happen to know if the reported crimes were those called in to the non-emergency number and answered or actual completed report forms? Dale Kooyman 2011-03-26T04:50:44Z William Burg comment-48005 2011-03-26T02:47:49Z 2011-03-26T02:47:49Z What was the weather like on those weekends? Dry or raining? Cold weather and rain tends to keep the taggers indoors. William Burg 2011-03-26T02:47:49Z Casey Kirk comment-48004 2011-03-26T01:54:16Z 2011-03-26T01:54:16Z It's a shame that many journalists don't take the time to actually look at data and analyze the facts. Nice reporting! Casey Kirk 2011-03-26T01:54:16Z Joel Rosenberg comment-48002 2011-03-26T01:11:24Z 2011-03-26T01:11:24Z The incidents I included occurred either on a Saturday or a Sunday. I figured that would account for late-night reports as well as reports filed the next day. I suppose that vandalism to businesses may be reported on Monday mornings when employees start their work weeks, but it was unclear to me whether the CrimeReports site was labeling the date and time of an incident as the report date or occurrence date. For such low volumes of data, it probably wouldn't affect the conclusion, but I did have the same thought you did. Joel Rosenberg 2011-03-26T01:11:24Z Isaac Gonzalez comment-48000 2011-03-26T01:02:23Z 2011-03-26T01:02:23Z Did you take into account crimes that may have happened on a Saturday but not reported until Sunday or Monday? Graffiti created on a Saturday night probably wouldn't be reported on the same day. Isaac Gonzalez 2011-03-26T01:02:23Z Rhys02 comment-47979 2011-03-26T00:55:25Z 2011-03-26T00:55:25Z How refreshing and rare!! A reporter who actually believes in doing independent research to validate whatever one else just accepts because the complainers say it often enough it is accepted as true. Rhys02 2011-03-26T00:55:25Z PETER S. LOPEZ comment-36215 2010-09-07T01:32:01Z 2010-09-07T01:32:01Z Wrote a simple article ~ could not draft save it. Got Error Message ~ Whoops, we found an error Please correct the issues in red below TypeError: c[b].toLowerCase is not a function Storyline Please select a storyline ~What does this mean? PETER S. LOPEZ 2010-09-07T01:32:01Z Dave comment-20416 2010-01-11T02:03:52Z 2010-01-11T02:03:52Z Although disconcerted at times by the evolution that has taken place in his classic renditions (and also his occasional mis-steps) , I too, fully appreciated his music and dedication to it. Exceptional review. Dave 2010-01-11T02:03:52Z Joel Rosenberg comment-11460 2009-08-02T07:39:05Z 2009-08-02T07:39:05Z Thanks everyone! I just want to add that tonight we released another fix that addresses some outstanding Internet Explorer 8 issues. The writer's dashboard and article creation pages now look like they're supposed to, and images can be uploaded without those annoying popup errors. Joel Rosenberg 2009-08-02T07:39:05Z Casey Kirk comment-11377 2009-07-31T08:15:47Z 2009-07-31T08:15:47Z Hooray! I have to agree with Hawa and Jenn... we can give the correct credit where it's due now! Great job on making SacPress even better than it already is! Casey Kirk 2009-07-31T08:15:47Z Jenn Walker comment-11366 2009-07-31T05:05:29Z 2009-07-31T05:05:29Z I am ridiculously excited about this Jenn Walker 2009-07-31T05:05:29Z Ed Fogle comment-11312 2009-07-30T21:06:29Z 2009-07-30T21:06:29Z AWESOME! Photos in order is a good thing. :-) Makes photographers cheer. "and the crowd goes wild"! Ed Fogle 2009-07-30T21:06:29Z Hawa Arsala comment-11311 2009-07-30T18:48:38Z 2009-07-30T18:48:38Z I'm glad that the pictures are uploading in order now, that will be helpful in following the story visually! Hawa Arsala 2009-07-30T18:48:38Z Joel Rosenberg comment-11303 2009-07-30T11:30:58Z 2009-07-30T11:30:58Z It's come to our attention that people are having trouble writing and uploading pictures in Internet Explorer 8 (both before and after the change described here). We're working on it and will get it fixed as soon as possible. Thanks for your patience. In the meantime, we've verified that the writing tools currently work well with Firefox and Safari if you want to use a temporary solution. Joel Rosenberg 2009-07-30T11:30:58Z Joel Rosenberg comment-7530 2009-05-12T05:51:34Z 2009-05-12T05:51:34Z Well, hopefully the larger text size will lower your optometry bill at least a little. We've heard from some people that the grey text helps them read easier, but it definitely is a contentious little issue with a good amount of people on both sides. When Amazon updated their Kindle a few months ago, there was a minor uprising because of the lighter text they introduced. Maybe we can strike a balance and adjust the text to something between what we have now and pure black. In any case, thanks for the feedback! Joel Rosenberg 2009-05-12T05:51:34Z rwneill comment-7526 2009-05-12T03:59:34Z 2009-05-12T03:59:34Z I'd like to see a greater contrast between the text & background...a darker shade of gray on the white background. The text that's bold & the blue bolded text are no problem but to read the articles comfortably I find my eyes consistently being drawn closer & closer to the screen, straing my neck muscles as my head invariably closes in on the text, and still not enjoying a truly comfortable read. Maybe I'm just getting old, but my optometrist says no cataracts yet... rwneill 2009-05-12T03:59:34Z Joel Rosenberg comment-7441 2009-05-11T09:09:02Z 2009-05-11T09:09:02Z Let me know if you see any issues or have any concerns Joel Rosenberg 2009-05-11T09:09:02Z David Watts Barton comment-5542 2009-04-03T19:28:23Z 2009-04-03T19:28:23Z That is amazingly cool. David Watts Barton 2009-04-03T19:28:23Z Joel Rosenberg comment-2280 2009-01-15T06:27:04Z 2009-01-15T06:27:04Z We've lost both games so far but are pushing through! Joel Rosenberg 2009-01-15T06:27:04Z Colleen Belcher comment-1556 2008-12-19T07:35:08Z 2008-12-19T07:35:08Z Thanks for making our site better and more user-friendly, Joel! Colleen Belcher 2008-12-19T07:35:08Z Joel Rosenberg comment-1562 2008-12-17T19:05:48Z 2008-12-17T19:05:48Z Perhaps, but we really want to highlight those tools to encourage their use, and from our experience, making things bigger (or, more accurately, less smaller) usually does a good job. Tagging and rating isn't something people are always familiar with, so we decided to bring them front and center. In terms of space usage, the width of our content needs to be pretty narrow for readability, so we had space on either side to play with anyway. Joel Rosenberg 2008-12-17T19:05:48Z Dan comment-1540 2008-12-17T13:55:37Z 2008-12-17T13:55:37Z Those tools on the right side are way too big...does it seem wise to devote a 300x400 px space to the thumbs up/down/tag features which only a minority of people will use and is far secondary to actual content (and ads) on your site? Dan 2008-12-17T13:55:37Z Sim Mendick comment-1092 2008-11-27T07:02:55Z 2008-11-27T07:02:55Z I like the sharks good. I like stories about UFOs more. Sim Mendick 2008-11-27T07:02:55Z Catherine Foss comment-1080 2008-11-24T23:12:29Z 2008-11-24T23:12:29Z Yeah it's crazy, the first time I visited Sac State I was so startled by the random roosters everywhere! In Davis I almost hit a rooster that was crossing the street, which brought to mind so many bad jokes... Catherine Foss 2008-11-24T23:12:29Z Joe Krause comment-1036 2008-11-23T08:53:59Z 2008-11-23T08:53:59Z Eat them. Or better yet, build a hen house and eat their eggs. Joe Krause 2008-11-23T08:53:59Z Holly Ilfeld comment-949 2008-11-17T19:45:27Z 2008-11-17T19:45:27Z Thanks for the update! Holly Ilfeld 2008-11-17T19:45:27Z Ben Ilfeld comment-577 2008-10-29T20:32:49Z 2008-10-29T20:32:49Z Thank you for the enthusiasm. We are just beginning our coverage in a small area of downtown where we can test our site and focus our marketing efforts. However, it is our intention to grow quickly and cover the entire Sacramento Metropolitan Area (including Elk Grove). How do we plan to do that? I hope energized people like you want to write stories you know better than anyone else and post those articles yourselves. For more information see: http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/250/How_do_I_become_a_writer You can tag your stories "Elk Grove" and everyone will be able to find them on a splash page for all the stories tagged Elk Grove. for more information see: http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/341/Tag_cloud_and_tagging And visit out "help" section to find out more about our goals and our unique features. Again, thank you so much for your interest and energy! Ben Ilfeld 2008-10-29T20:32:49Z Jane Gassner comment-587 2008-10-29T20:21:29Z 2008-10-29T20:21:29Z Yeah, yippee and hallelujah! Sacramento finally enters the digital age. You do mean Sacramento County, don't you? 'Cause I'm in Elk Grove and we're really quite Web 2.0ie out here. Will we be having some space of our own? Jane Gassner 2008-10-29T20:21:29Z Ben Ilfeld comment-328 2008-10-17T16:23:34Z 2008-10-17T16:23:34Z MEOW! Ben Ilfeld 2008-10-17T16:23:34Z Joe Krause comment-324 2008-10-16T22:41:19Z 2008-10-16T22:41:19Z I am excited. They are 4 - 0 now. Isn't this their best start in team history? Joe Krause 2008-10-16T22:41:19Z Nicholas Walsh comment-268 2008-10-14T17:37:01Z 2008-10-14T17:37:01Z I think they have the worst color combo out there, thats all I know about hockey. Nicholas Walsh 2008-10-14T17:37:01Z Joel Rosenberg comment-100 2008-10-13T05:57:10Z 2008-10-13T05:57:10Z Let me know what you guys think about the sharks! Joel Rosenberg 2008-10-13T05:57:10Z