What a joke of a do-nothing law, nothing more than a publicity stunt if this description of it is accurate.

Is the problem with these people going on your property and taking recyclables? There's already a law that deals with that, it's called "trespassing." Is the problem with these people leaving debris behind after their search? I'm sure the vandalism, prop. damage and littering laws cover this.

How much of a drain revenue, in official numbers, is the problem of taking recyclables? And how much would it be in "real" numbers, that is, assuming that operating recycling centers, including the maintenance, labor and fuel for the recycling fleet, cost money...how much is being lost when you consider than people picking through garbage to find the valuables and directly depositing them into a redemption center is certainly more efficient than a sort process in a recycling center?

And unrelated to the environmental and revenue impact issues, I can see why some politicos would jump to pass a law that flies in the face of California v. Greenwood, which ruled that garbage searching wasn't a violation of the 4th amendment, and so was a traditional way of embarrassing public figures who were dumb enough to leave incriminating evidence in their garbage bags. Would this law survive judicial scrutiny when a private investigator is arrested for violating it?

Well said Dan.

The real crime here is more time and attention of our police will go to further degrading and antagonzing our ever increasing numbers of disenfranchized.

Police will now have to patrol our dumpsters?

Steven, I'm sorry that you think this issue is so very obvious. Your attitude (i.e. "It's about time," etc.) presumes that everyone thinks this is as cut-and-dried as you do. Honestly, it's a pretty gray area for me. I figure the guy that pushes his shopping cart through my Colonial Heights neighborhood (who's friendly, respectful, and waves at the residents on their way to work) maybe pulls down, what, like $250 max on a typical recycle day, when all our bins are at our curbs? Fantastic. It's off the books, this guy can supplement what meager handouts he gets from city services and charities. Look, I don't argue that organized groups are better equipped to make sure money is allotted in a fair and appropriate way, I just think that this one guy doesn't really deserve to be persecuted. It just doesn't seem to me that he's stealing! I don't draw the same straight line between what he's taking and what you describe as "significant revenue loss for the city." I'm not saying I totally approve of people doing this, and they certainly should not trespass onto anyone's property, but when the bins are in the street? I'm just saying I don't think it's a black-and-white issue. And it seems I'm not the only one who feels this way. So, Steven, would you be able to consider that your black-and-white view isn't the only one?

Ah Steve, BTW Trapper is my last name.

It's funny how the City considerers this stealing from them when the city did not pay the redemption value for the cans and bottles when they were bought at the store, so it was never "their" money to begin with.

I will be sad to see the police cruisers sitting in alleys with three or four homeless/needy dumpster divers sitting on a curb receiving tickets that will never be paid, or going to jail for a night which could conceivably cost more than the recyclables could have been worth. I haven't had any issues of the dumpsters being emptied on my street though so I guess I don't really care very much about them taking the recycling out.

Steven> You still don't address any of my objections, the most prominent of which is: what nuisance forms of bin scavenging are not covered by the current ordinances on trespassing and property damage? You really think it's within a city's interests to punish people who go through curbside garbage and don't leave any kind of mess? Is it in the environment's best interest for redeemable materials (that weren't put in the recycle bin) to be left in otherwise unsorted garbage bins? Yes, Sacramento has a $50 million deficit, part of which will be mitigated through reductions in the police force, and yet you think it's worthwhile to divert that reduced police force towards arresting people who, while it in for themselves, are helping to sort out our mess.

And unless I'm totally wrong about the finances of all this, I think it's a bit pie-in-the-sky to think that money from recycling could be diverted to the homeless or any other program. Recycling costs money. The whole purpose of CRV is to fund recycling. Recycling, with the exception of precious metals, is not a money maker, which is why we pay CRV in the first place. So if everyone's recyclables are untouched, you really think there's money left over, after the city has paid for its expensive recycling contracts, to fund homeless programs?

Currently, recycling programs are such a money losing venture that recycled materials are being warehoused as the price of scrap on the world market has plummeted to the point that it is virtually impossible to sell.

I live about a block from a bottle and can recycling center and the dumpster diving activity is high in the neighborhood. Yes people trespass to get to the containers and yes people make a mess - but even those who seem relatively neat about it are causing a problem to the city. We separate our garbage from our recyclable materials for a reason and putting messy garbage into the recycling container causes problems for the sorting process. What I have found is that somebody will go through my containers, open up garbage bags, and transfer material from one container to the other (rather than dumping it on the ground) while they are searching and render pointless any attempt on my part to separate my waste. I assume this exposes me to some kind of fine for having garbage in my recycling container (?).

Most of the regulars in the neighborhood have stopped bothering me as they know I don't put any cans or bottles in EITHER container. Whenever I have a bag's worth, I simply hang the bag on my fence and it's typically gone within an hour.

If an individual homeowner returns their cans to a recycling center, instead of putting them in the blue bin, is that also considered stealing from the city? If this is the case, why not simply put a ban on recycling centers? If there is no place to turn in the cans, they'll stop digging for them to turn them in, right?

This issue is a distraction. Having people rifle through your trash and recycling bins for cans is annoying, it is true. It's also a fairly minor problem in the grand scheme of things. Personally, I'm more worried about the deregulation of the city's building department (via the Development Oversight Commission's efforts to sidestep or eliminate development regulations, and efforts to reduce public input into the development process) or "strong mayor" power grabs than things like recycling rules. There are other scavengers who take funds out of the city budget, but they wear suits and ties so apparently it is considered acceptable.

This seems like a reasonable law as a nuisance deterrent. I've read all of the objections on this thread, and most of them are in need of a strong dose of Satisficing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing

Why cannot the scavengers sue the city over burdensome regulation?
There is so much gray area here. The new trash cans in town are already stamped with "Do Not Scavenge." One deterrent. It is now against the law to scavenge on public property. Two deterrents. Trespass is illegal. Three deterrents. Theft is illegal. Another deterrent. Are the pickers going to stop? No, there's value in our refuse. Will law enforcement fall on these guys? Depends, I guess. I don't know.
In the 90s in SF recycle operators used to praise pickers as being a key link in the recycling chain. Now, with all the legal and ethical questions, they don't do it so much. I'm a greenie who likes less government, especially fewer laws that are unenforceable.
Many of these comments assume that the miscreants are homeless and would accept assistance. Those are facts not in evidence. The pickers may consider themselves workers, making a living in the only way they can. Are they stealing? I don't know. Some of the pickers on my block are friendly, some not. I think they have quit rummaging through our stuff because we don't buy two liter bottles of soda anymore and our garbage is full of bagged, used kitty litter.
Some residents (a good friend in SF) defeat the pickers by selling their recyclables themselves. Others with the time only put out the materials just before the recyclers arrive. I've done that. Leaving dedicated bags of bottles for the pickers leaves government out of the loop. Thanks, Tony.

Here a link of interest: http://www.examiner.com/x-1793-Sacramento-Environmental-News-Examiner~y2009m3d4-Sacramento-outlaws-refuse-scavengers

An old friend in North Hollywood used to leave newspapers and bottles and cans out at dusk and the next morning they were always gone. Ownership of that material is an issue. When we leave clothing at the curb on pick up days, I keep an eye on it until it's picked up. I figure I own the clothes until the truck takes them away. Apologies to the pickers, but that's the way I like it.

That's right Steve, let's enact additional laws to further criminalize poverty. It's already illegal to sleep in one's car or in public. You used to be a Democrat, when did you change parties and abandon your principles?

I wish there were a "simple " answer to solve the problem of poverty. Does anyone really know who the people are doing the scavenging? Did the city do any kind of investigative research before instituting yet another law that probably can't be enforced? I've seen well dressed elderly people collecting bottles from the recycle bins in Tahoe Park-my elderly neighbor included (he worked 50 years before he retired) I wouldn't call them criminals but rather people trying to supplement inadequate Social Security checks. The council needs to rethink this law. Locks are an inexpensive deterrent to folks coming into the yard.

The new law is a tool police can use - I just read about how people are possibly getting shot over "recycleables". Police will not be cruising looking for garbage theives on a regular basis (though I am sure from time to time a sweep may be done) any more than they will be patrolling for underage cigarette smokers. Unfortunately respect and common sense are not the rule these days, at least not by a growing number of people. I think it is sad that the issue got to the point of City Council consideration. I am sure it was not a quick decision, but rather one that can be supported and based upon input from numerous sources, including City Police, waste management and others. I think numerous examples were given in this story, and with a 6-3 it appears at this time to be a good decision by the representatives on the City Council.

its been great reading thanks to all who have contributed to the conversation. I am one who is bothered by the the idea of teh most vauable of materials being pilfered by career recyclers such as are in my midtown neighborhood ( the homeles rarely beat the career recyclers. I have had them come in my 6' fenced back yard ( my dog bit one of them & i was worried i was gonna get sued) i knwo PD wont be spending too much time over it but maybe it will cut back on the career recyclers as well increase the profitibility of the recycling program that i am happy to participate in .. ( seldom i agree this strongly wiht you steve ,, makes me re think :-)
also mr burg my friend.. lets force mr thomas to give us hard facts about the combining of the planning & design commiissions before we kill him..lots of cities have them combined and it works , my question is how its gonna save the city money

Steve, I've read every one of your statements, and I am annoyed that you continue to fail to address the issues raised by the posters here. "Call you crazy." No, I won't be doing that, but I do think you revealed the ugly truth of your feelings above. "I like to enjoy my local park without people living and sleeping there. I like to be able to walk down the street without watching someone urinate there. I like cycling along the American River Parkway without the fear of being robbed. Nuts, huh?" Amazing. You're equating individuals who avail themselves of recyclables with public urination, being physically robbed, and seeing homeless people sleeping in a park. You've just revealed your true agenda. For you, this isn't about recyclables or public policy; it's about your hatred of the homeless and your desire to have any reminder of them erased from your vision or your life.

Steve, please show us with public documents that any funds the city receives from recycling goes to help the homeless. What is the percentage of those funds going to help the homeless?

Why should the city be in the middle of this Steve? If as you say the money is going to homeless programs anyways, why not cut out the middleman, and all of their bloated city salaries, and let the homeless have the money directly by collecting recyclables?

The recycling program is nothing but free cash to the city coffers. The city does not deserve one more dime from the taxpayers or citizens, they cannot properly manage the money they do have, and to top it off they give tens of millions of dollars a year away to rich fat cat developers to build martini bars.

I think the city should issue recycling containers that people can put out to donate the recyclables directly to the homeless. Alternatively, since that will never happen, I suggest that everyone get a container, paint them pink and print "donation to the homeless" on them, and put them out each week. The city cannot constitutionally outlaw people from collecting cans from you if you are donating them to the homeless, just don't use the city supplied containers.

I for one am pissed off that this is even an issue, I would much rather have homeless people benefit from collecting cans and bottles than our out of control city government.

Personally, I've never had a problem with people picking through my trash and recycling. It's always old Chinese ladies in colorful sweaters who smile and wave nervously when they notice that I can see them.

And while I do see the problems that can and do arise from scavenging, it really doesn't seem like a new law is necessary - all the crimes committed in the act would seem to be covered by current laws.

Also, I think the 'scavenging robs the city of a potential source of income' line is a spurious argument. Yes, if someone removes the recycling from a bin, the city doesn't get that money. But every time someone parks properly without the risk of ticketing, that's also potential money the city will never see. What right does the city have to my recyclables that it can claim them as its own before they're even on the trucks?

This happened again this week - a guy in my driveway digging through my containers - the result of which was that I discovered that all of the bagged garbage had been ripped open and dumped inside the container, leaving a significant mess I will probably have to scrub out to avoid lingering odors and mold.

We moved to Midtown Sacramento about two years ago, from Seattle where we also lived in the shadow of the city. There are not a lot of bums (mostly sun tanned, well toned and usuually bike riding guys, in pretty good physical shape and able to work, but prefer a more casual lifestyle of thieving, drinking and drug taking. We dont consider these people "homeless") in Seattle who are pushing stolen shopping carts around, tresspassing on private property, and diging through thru trash like we have here in Midtown. We think the problem is created by the 8 cent container deposit. Seattle has a law requiring recycling. Each home is provided three trash containers; one fo garbage, one for glass products, and another large one for all other recyclables. The city performs random tests, and if your home is found to NOT be recycling (to some measured degree, say 70%), then you are given a warning notice. Second notice includes a $50 fine.

Look....I can not get a job. I've tried. I am forced to recycle to make ends meet and pay bills. I am partially disabled. I don't go on peoples property. I actually report those who do, so don't go stereotyping each of us that have no choice. Besides when you say the recycling money goes to help the homeless..RIGHT!!! What does it do for them? Not a damn thing. Before assuming this why don't you try going down to these HOMELESS help centers and try getting help. I'ts a big joke. So get off your high holier-than-thow horse and try looking into where the city's recycling money really goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok for the sake of argument. most of you are commenting with your feelings,not with the facts. I am the CEO of Hand & Hand Foundation (www.handandhandfoundation.org ) an environmental and childrens charity. We have the "Cans 4 kids" program so we are recycling collectors / charity and we are out there seeing the problems / benefits of the homeless recycling.
1. Homeless people ARE a big part of the recycling industry.They do scavage tons daily of recycle from our city streets and dumpsters.
2. Some do have permision, the ones who don't are the problem.The homeless that unlawfully trespass to take recycle, dump garbage on the ground,climbing over walls in locked facilitys, etc. we even seen a homeless guy stealing one of our recycle bins with recycle in it walking down the street one day that he took from a locked facility by breaking the lock on the door. So he was STEALING from us, and children that this program supports. These are the ones who make it bad for all.
This creates a problem, if a homeless person in digging thru your garbage on your property, lets say in your backyard (similer to a business locked garbage area) you would call the police or prob. hold him at gun point, why? Because he doesn't belong there doing what he is doing. Business and residents are just fed up with the trespassing and the mess SOME make. How comfortable are you if you go to a resturant and see homeless people laying around the resturant property or digging through the garbage bins, I bet you make sure you lock your car doors right? or you might not patronize the business? Who benefits? Nobody.
The law itself is another one that won't be actively enforced by the police unless it was called in by the property owner/leasee AND the culprit is still in the immediate area. (i'm an ex-police officer too) .
The only way I see to curtail the problem is NOT to have recycle in a outside bin. Okay here comes the shameless plug. Call us, Hand & Hand Foundation we provide FREE cans,bags, and pickup service to businesses ( residential / multi-family coming soon), we have most of our cans located inside of businesses, we rinse and disinfect our cans at every pickup for inside cans so there is no smell or bugs,and you support the children charitys in your community. 1-877-289-8430 to donate your recycle or to find out more about this program.

It's unfortunate that more isn't being done to enforce this law. The homeless in my area of East Sac continue to go through both my blue bin (which is the only place I would put recyclables) and my garbage bin (where they tear open and dump out my bags of garbage and find no recyclables). They also come onto my property to go through the bins before I put them on the street. It's extremely frustrating and annoying, but there's nothing I can do.